THE PENNSYLVANIA LOTTERY. THE ISSUES AFFECTING YOU REVEAL EXPLAINED DISCUSSED NOW ON WGAL EIGHT IN FOCUS. HELLO, I'M SUSAN SHAPIRO. IT WAS A HISTORIC WEEK. DONALD TRUMP BECAME THE FIRST PRESIDENT OR FORMER PRESIDENT TO FACE A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. THE FORMER PRESIDENT PLED NOT GUILTY TO 34 COUNTS OF FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE AS PART OF AN EFFORT TO COVER UP A SEX SCANDAL DURING THE 2016 CAMPAIGN. THE STATEMENT OF FACTS INDICATES TRUMP ILLEGALLY PAID -- STAR STORMY DANIELS $130,000 TO KEEP QUIET ABOUT AN ALLEGED AFFAIR, BUT MADE IT LOOK LIKE PAYMENTS TO HIS FORMER ATTORNEY, MICHAEL COHEN, FOR LEGAL WORK. HE'S ALSO ACCUSED OF A SCHEME TO PAY OFF A FORMER PLAYBOY PLAYMATE AND A DOORMAN. 34 FALSE STATEMENTS MADE TO COVER UP OTHER CRIMES. THESE ARE FELONY CRIMES IN NEW YORK STATE. NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, THE FORMER PRESIDENT DENIES THE CHARGES. I NEVER THOUGHT ANYTHING LIKE THIS COULD HAPPEN IN AMERICA. I NEVER THOUGHT IT COULD HAPPEN. THE ONLY CRIME THAT I HAVE COMMITTED IS TO FEARLESSLY DEFEND OUR NATION FROM THOSE WHO SEEK TO DESTROY IT. TONIGHT, WE'LL TALK WITH SOME EXPERTS AS WE EXAMINE THE CHARGES, DISCUSSED WHAT THIS INDICTMENT MEANS POLITICALLY AND THEIR HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. WE'RE PUTTING TRUMP'S INDICTMENT IN FOCUS. WE'RE JOINED NOW BY PENN STATE, DICKINSON LAW PROFESSOR DERMOT GROOME. HE WAS A PROSECUTOR IN THE MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND HANDLED GRAND JURY CASES. THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE. WHY WAS THERE A GRAND JURY IN THIS CASE? GRAND JURY IS THE PROCESS WITH WHICH ACCUSATORY INSTRUMENTS ARE BROUGHT. HOW A CRIMINAL CASE IS STARTED IN MANHATTAN, IN NEW YORK STATE AND MOST STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY. SO IT'S EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED TO JUST JURIES OF JURIES WHO GET SELECTED RANDOMLY BETWEEN 12 AND 23. AND THEY'RE PRESENTED WITH EVIDENCE. THE PROSECUTOR INSTRUCTS THEM ON THE LAW. PROSECUTOR LEAVES AND THEN ASKS THEM TO TAKE A VOTE ON CERTAIN CHARGES. SO IN THIS CASE, THE TRUMP CASE, THOSE GRAND JURIES VOTED TO THE 34 COUNTS OF FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS. SOME MIGHT ARGUE, AND I HAVE HEARD IT ARGUED THAT ONCE THAT THIS GRAND JURY HEARS EVIDENCE FROM A PROSECUTOR, THAT THEY IMMEDIATELY WILL VOTE TO INDICT. HAVE YOU IF YOU FOUND THAT? WELL, I MEAN, I'VE HEARD THE EXPRESSION YOU CAN ANYONE CAN INDICT A HAM SANDWICH AND I'VE NEVER SEEN A MUG SHOT OF A HAM SANDWICH. AND I'VE BEEN BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE GRAND JURY HUNDREDS OF TIMES. WHEN I WHEN I SPENT MY SIX YEARS THERE, THEY TAKE THEIR JOB VERY SERIOUSLY. I THINK THE PROSECUTORS THAT GO IN THERE TAKE THEIR JOB VERY SERIOUSLY. I THINK WHAT IS TRUE IS THAT THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS IS LESS. SO IT'S ALL THE GRAND JURY IS VOTING ON IS WHETHER IT'S PROBABLY TRUE WHAT HAS BEEN ALLEGED AT TRIAL. IT'S A MUCH HIGHER STANDARD. IT'S PROOF BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. SO I THINK IT'S THAT DIFFERENCE OF LEGAL STANDARD THAT'S APPLIED THAT ACCOUNTS FOR THE DIFFERENCE. BUT I HAVE NEVER BEEN BEFORE A GRAND JURY THAT I THOUGHT THEY TOOK THEIR JOB OR JUST SIMPLY DEFER TO THE PROSECUTOR. THIS WAS AN ARRAIGNMENT, WHICH IS A PRETTY STANDARD PROCEDURE, BUT OBVIOUSLY NOT LIKE ANY ARRAIGNMENT WE'VE EVER SEEN. OH, YES. I MEAN, THE ARRAIGNMENT IS BASICALLY JUST A STARTING POINT OF THE CRIMINAL TRIAL. THE DEFENDANT IS PRESENTED WITH THE GRAND JURY INDICTMENT. THEY CAN READ THE INDICTMENT. THEY HAVE THE OPTION OF MAKING SOME MOTIONS IF THEY WANT. TYPICALLY, IF THE PERSON IS LIKELY TO BE KEPT IN JAIL, THE DETAINED FOR THE TRIAL, THEY'LL BE A BAIL APPLICATION. BUT THAT DIDN'T APPLY HERE. SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT THE JUDGE JUST SET UP A SCHEDULE TWO FOR THE DEFENSE TO MAKE MOTIONS FOR THE PROSECUTION, PROSECUTION TO RESPOND TO THOSE MOTIONS. AND THEN FOR THE JUDGE TO TAKE THE TIME THAT HE NEEDS TO MAKE DECISIONS ON THOSE MOTIONS. WE HAVE HEARD WHY NO BAIL. INTERESTING. THAT HAS CHANGED IN NEW YORK HAS ENTERED THE LAW. YES. SO BRAG ONE OF THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL THINGS THAT HE DID IN HIS FIRST WEEK WAS TO TAKE A POLICY DECISION NOT TO SEEK BAIL ON MANY OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHARGES. LOW LEVEL, NONVIOLENT CHARGES. SO THERE WAS SOME CONTROVERSY ABOUT ABOUT THEM. BUT EVEN AS THE BAIL POLICY EXISTED IN HIS PREDECESSORS, MORGENTHAU AND VANCE, THIS WAS NOT THIS IS NOT THE TYPE OF CASE THAT ANYONE WOULD BE HELD, DETAINED ON PENDING TRIAL. A LOT OF LEGAL SCHOLARS, SUCH AS YOUR SELF, SEEM VERY DIVIDED ON THIS. SOME ARE CALLING IT A WEAK CASE, OTHERS AS A VERY STRONG CASE. HOW DO YOU SEE IT? SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT BRAGG IS A VERY BRIGHT LAWYER, A VERY WELL-EDUCATED CAREER PROSECUTOR. HE HAS SOME OF THE BEST LAWYERS IN THE COUNTRY WORKING WITH THEM, AND THEY COGITATING ON THIS FOR A YEAR AND A HALF. SO I'M A LITTLE BIT DUBIOUS WHEN OTHER PUNDITS PICK UP THE INDICTMENT SCAN OVER IT FOR A FEW MINUTES AND THEN SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT A STRONG CASE, OR THERE. IN MY VIEW, IT'S A VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD CASE FOR THE FALSIFYING RECORDS. IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S AMPLE EVIDENCE. THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE STRENGTH OF THE ABILITY TO RAISE IT UP TO A FELONY, I BELIEVE THAT'S RELATIVELY STRONG AS WELL. I THINK THE PUNDITS ARE CORRECT IN SAYING THAT THIS SPECIFIC ACT OF ELEVATION HAS NOT BEEN TESTED IN THE APPELLATE DIVISION OR IN THE COURT OF APPEALS, WHICH WOULD BE THE HIGHEST COURT IN NEW YORK STATE. SO THERE'S NO CASE LAW THAT WE CAN REFER TO NOW. BUT I THINK IT'S RELATIVE OF LEE, A STRAIGHTFORWARD ELEVATION, MUCH LIKE TRESPASS IS ELEVATED TO BURGLARY EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. WHAT IS THE LEGAL BASIS HE'S USING FOR RAISING THIS TWO FELONY? SO ESSENTIALLY THE WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT THE MISDEMEANOR OF FALSIFYING THE RECORDS IS ELEVATED BECAUSE IT WAS DONE WITH THE INTENTION OF TRYING TO PERPETRATE OR COVER UP ANOTHER CRIME. I AM DISAPPOINTED, LIKE MANY OTHER LEGAL SCHOLARS, THAT HE WASN'T MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT THAT CRIME WAS IN THE INDICTMENT. IT SEEMS FROM READING THE INDICTMENT AND CONSIDERING WHAT HE SAID AFTERWARDS, THAT HE'S THINKING ABOUT THREE THINGS. ONE IS A VIOLATION OF FEDERAL ELECTION LAW. ONE IS A VIOLATION OF NEW YORK STATE ELECTION LAW. AND THEN FINALLY, HE SEEMS TO LEAVE OPEN THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE TAX FRAUD MAY BE THAT THE OTHER CRIME THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO COVER UP OR TRUMP WAS TRYING TO COVER UP. ALL RIGHT. WELL, STAY WITH US BECAUSE WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THE TIMING OF THIS WHOLE INDICTMENT. JERE GISH AND LORI BURKHOLDER, THE NEWS TEAM TELLS THE SUSQUEHANNA VALLEY TALKING, WE TRUST THEM JUST BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN HERE FOR SO LONG. I LIKE HOW THEY'RE PASSIONATE ABOUT THEIR JOB. AND LORI, THEIR HOME, THEY'RE FROM HERE. THEY'RE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY. YOU LEAVE WITH THAT TRUST AND THAT KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT'S GOING ON OUT THERE. THEY'RE ALWAYS THERE FOR YOU. THEY'RE SMILING, FACES, THEIR PERSONAL STORIES. THEY'RE ALL SOMETHING THAT YOU TAKE HOME WITH YOU. JERE GISH LORI BURKHOLDER WEEKNIGHTS ON WGAL NEWS 8. I CAME TO THE LORD AT THE AGE OF ABOUT 42. DR. CHARLES STANLEY HAS BEEN SO IMPORTANT IN MY LIFE, JUST HIS TEACHINGS. I ONE OF THE LIFE PRINCIPLES IS THAT THE BROKEN THIS IS IS A REQUIREMENT FOR GOD TO USE YOU GREATLY IS WHEN YOU CAN BECOME THAT CONDUIT OF WHAT GOD WANTS TO DO THROUGH YOU TO GET TO OTHER PEOPLE. IT'S JUST AMAZING OF WHAT GOD CAN DO WITH YOU. COVERAGE YOU CAN COUNT ON. IT'S ABOUT MORE THAN JUST COVERING THE NEWS OF THE DAY. IT'S ABOUT GETTING THE FACTS STRAIGHT WITH A BALANCED APPROACH. IT'S ABOUT THE PEOPLE WE MEET AND THE STORIES THEY TELL. SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES AT WGAL NEWS 8. WE BELIEVE IT TAKES TEAMWORK FROM THE LARGEST TEAM OF REPORTERS WITH THE MOST NEWSROOMS TO COVER YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WHETHER IT'S BREAKING NEWS OF SEVERE WEATHER, YOU'LL ALWAYS BE UP TO DATE. GOOD EVENING. I'M LORI BURKHOLDER AND I'M JERE GISH. WE HAVE TEAM COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS TONIGHT. WG GAYLE NEWS 8 ITS COVERAGE. YOU CAN COUNT ON THIS IS WGBH EIGHT IN FOCUS COVERAGE. YOU CAN COUNT ON. WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION WITH PENN STATE. DICKINSON LAW PROFESSOR DERMOT GROOME. AGAIN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE. WHY DO YOU THINK ALVIN BRAGG CHOSE NOW TO REVIVE THIS CASE WHEN OTHERS SAW IT AS SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T WANT TO GO AFTER? WELL, I THINK WHY HE'S PURSUING IT, I THINK WE CAN ONLY HOLD HIM TO ACCOUNT FOR THE TIME THAT HE HAS SPENT ON IT. SO HE'S ONLY IN OFFICE ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF. HE TOOK THE FILE. HE DID ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION, IF YOU RECALL. IT WAS REPORTING. THAT TO ME IS THAT IT'S VERY SENIOR AND VERY HIGHLY REGARDED. PROFESSOR SKEETERS BROUGHT HIM A CASE AND SAID, LOOK, WE HAVE A CASE. WE CAN PROVE IT BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. AND WHEN HE REVIEWED IT, HE WASN'T SATISFIED. SO HE DECLINED TO PURSUE IT AT THAT TIME. FOUR MONTHS LATER, HE INDICTED WEISSELBERG, THE ACCOUNTANT. HE PLED GUILTY A FEW MONTHS LATER, HE STARTED THE TRIAL AGAINST THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION, GOT A CONVICTION IN DECEMBER. AND THE SENTENCING. THE SENTENCING OF THAT WAS ON IN JANUARY. AND ONE WEEK AFTER THAT SENTENCING, HE CONVENED A GRAND JURY TO LOOK AT THIS CASE. SO WHEN I LOOK AT IT, I DON'T SEE THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF DELAY ON HIS PART. AND IT'S A BIT UNFAIR, I THINK, TO CHARGE HIM WITH ALL THE DELAY THAT HAPPENED BEFORE. SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT HE'S WORKED EXPEDITIOUSLY, BUT VERY CAUTIOUSLY, THAT HE'S BEING VERY DELIBERATE, VERY INTENTIONAL, AND HE'S BEING VERY CAREFUL IN WHAT HE DOES. AND HE CERTAINLY APPRECIATES THE GRAVITY, I THINK, OF INDICTING A PRESIDENT. HE ALSO SAYS HE HAS ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE. NOW, AT THIS POINT, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO REVEAL WHAT THAT EVIDENCE IS. SO HE HAS TO REVEAL IT TO THE CHILDREN OF THE DEFENSE IN NEW YORK STATE, ALSO PASSED A LAW ON OPEN FILE DISCOVERY. SO ESSENTIALLY, EVERYTHING THE PROSECUTOR HAS HAS TO BE TURNED OVER. NOW TO THE DEFENSE. NOW WE'LL SEE WHETHER THERE ARE LEAKS OR WHETHER THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE LEARN ABOUT THAT. I DON'T EXPECTED THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IS GOING TO DIVULGE ANY OF THAT. SO WE MAY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL TRIAL. BUT IF THAT HAPPENS. RIGHT, RIGHT. IF AT THAT TRIAL, IF THAT TRIAL EVER HAPPENS. BUT WE MAY HEAR FROM THE DEFENSE AND WE MAY ALSO LEARN ABOUT SOME OF IT THROUGH MOTIONS THAT ARE FILED WITH THE COURT. HE HAS SAID NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. OTHERS KEEP SAYING IF THEY COME AFTER THE PRESIDENT, THEY CAN COME AFTER YOU AND ME. HOW DO YOU VIEW IT? YEAH, NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW. I THINK THAT MUST BE PART OF WHAT HE'S THINKING, BECAUSE TRUMP ISN'T GETTING JAIL TIME FOR THIS. MAYBE A FINE. WELL, THAT'S NOT GOING TO TROUBLE HIM. I THINK THE MOTIVATING FACTOR FOR BRAGG, I MEAN, AS A PROSECUTOR, AS A CAREER PROSECUTOR, IS THAT THE VALUE OF THE RULE OF LAW IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DEFEND. IT'S SOMETHING SO INTEGRAL TO OUR SYSTEM THAT IT HAS TO BE DEFENDED. SO IF HE HAS EVIDENCE, IT HOPEFULLY IT'S EVIDENCE THAT'S SO CONCLUSIVE THAT THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT IF HE HAS THAT TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT TRUMP COMMITTED THESE TYPES OF CRIMES, WHY WHY WOULD HE NOT? TO ME, I THINK HE'D BE FAILING IN HIS SWORN DUTY TO HOLD PEOPLE TO THE RULE OF LAW AND A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM. WHAT MORE DO YOU EXPECT TO SEE OR WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO SEE AS THIS CASE PROCEEDS? I'D LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE CASE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT IS THE THEORY BEHIND THE ELEVATION OF THE CRIME. AGAIN, PART OF WHAT I THINK THE CASE MUST BE STRONG IS IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THAT SOMEONE IS AS EXPERIENCED AS BRAGG WOULD. WOULD IT TAKE MAKE FILE THIS INDICTMENT WITHOUT REALLY UNDERSTANDING AND REALLY BEING VERY CONFIDENT IN HIS ABILITY TO ESTABLISH THE FELONY? WHAT'S THE EXPRESSION? IF YOU GO AFTER THE KING, YOU'D BETTER HAVE THE THING TO BACK IT UP. WE'VE HEARD A LOT FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT WHO CAME OUT THAT NIGHT AND GAVE A SPEECH, AND YOU KNOW, WENT AFTER ALVIN BRAGG AND THE JUDGE. AND YET, ALVIN BRAGG WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SAY VERY MUCH, WILLIE, GOING FORWARD. NO, I DON'T EXPECT THAT YOU WILL. WE'LL HEAR ANYTHING. AS PROSECUTORS, WE DON'T TRY OUR CASES IN THE PUBLIC FORUM. AND THAT OFTEN MEANS THAT WE ARE SUBJECT TO ATTACKS AND NO ONE SHOULD UNDERSTAND OUR SILENCE AS AN ADMISSION OF ANY KIND. IT'S JUST THAT PROFESSIONALLY, WE DON'T DO THAT AND WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT. JUST LASTLY, THE JUDGE DID GIVE A KIND OF WARNING IN THE COURTROOM DURING THE ARRAIGNMENT NOT TO SAY ANYTHING THAT WOULD INCITE VIOLENCE OR ANY OTHER ISSUES. IS THAT KIND OF STANDARD OR WAS THAT A LITTLE DIFFERENT HERE? WELL, THAT PART OF IT IS NOT STANDARD BECAUSE THE DEFENDANT IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. SO I THINK THE JUDGE IS TRYING TO RESPECT IT. THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND MR. TRUMP'S RIGHT TO TO SPEAK ON THESE ISSUES, BUT ALSO IS QUITE CONCERNED THAT WE DON'T HAVE A REPEAT OF JANUARY SIX. SO THE JUDGE WAS VERY INTENTIONAL ABOUT NOT PUTTING ANY RESTRICTION ON HIM. NOW. AND I THINK IF HE FEELS HE NEEDS TO IN THE FUTURE, IT'LL BE VERY LIMITED. IT'LL BE THE GUY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. YEAH, A GAG ORDER, BUT EVEN A GAG ORDER. I CAN'T IMAGINE A COMPLETE GAG ORDER. IT'LL BE LIMITED AND AND VERY SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO TRY TO AVOID VIOLENCE. I MEAN, PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE HURT BECAUSE TRUMP IS TALKING ABOUT THIS CASE. YEAH, WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. AND COMING UP ON WGAL EIGHT IN FOCUS, WE'LL LOOK AT THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THE INDICTMENT WITH NEWS 8 POLITICAL ANALYST DR. TERRY MADONNA. WHEN THE DUST SETTLES AND THE ENGINE FINALLY ROARS. THE THING YOU CARE ABOUT MOST IS A JOB WELL DONE. BUT WHEN YOU GET YOUR TOOLS FROM HARBOR FREIGHT, SOMETHING ABOUT THE JOB FEELS A LITTLE DIFFERENT. YOUR WALLET BECAUSE WE BELIEVE NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE WORKING ON, YOU NEED HIGH QUALITY TOOLS AT A GREAT PRICE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE IN STOCK HERE. SO WHATEVER YOU DO, DO IT FOR LESS THAN HARBOR FREIGHT QUALITY TOOLS. LOWEST PRICES, EIGHT ON YOUR SIDE INVESTIGATION SINCE UNCOVERING THE TRUTH AND EXPOSING SCAMS AND CORRUPTION. I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE A SCAM ARTIST ONLY A SCAMMER WILL ASK FOR INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, OR A CREDIT CARD. STORIES THAT MATTER TO THE SUSQUEHANNA VALLEY. AND WHEN HE TOLD ME WHAT DOCTORS BELIEVE MAY HAVE TRIGGERED HIS HEART ATTACK, I WAS SHOCKED. A TEAM OF JOURNALISTS UNCOVERING THE STORIES THAT MATTER TO YOU. 8 ON YOUR SIDE AND INVESTIGATIONS ONLY ON WGAL NEWS 8 COVERAGE. YOU CAN COUNT ON. IT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF THOSE SPRINGS THAT SUNNY AND 81 DAY SHOWERS AND 40 THE NEXT. SO DON'T TRUST YOUR FORECAST WITH JUST ANYONE. TRUST US. THE SUSQUEHANNA VALLEY IS MOSTLY EXPERIENCED FORECASTERS WITH THE TOOLS AND TECHNOLOGY ALL WITHIN OUR REACH. DECADES OF TRAINING AND SEASONS OF EXPERIENCE PREPARE US FOR SEVERE SPRING WEATHER. ALWAYS WATCHING THE SKIES ABOVE WHEN FACING SEVERE SPRING WEATHER. TRUST FOR WGAL NEWS 8 STORM TEAM ONLY ON WGAL NEWS 8 ITS WEATHER COVERAGE. YOU CAN COUNT ON DETERMINATION, DEDICATION, HAVING WHAT IT TAKES AND GOING BEYOND. LOCAL HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES GET THEIR TIME TO SHINE. TUESDAYS AT 530 ON WGAL NEWS 8, THE HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETE OF THE WEEK SPONSORED BY ORTHOPEDIC ASSOCIATES OF LANCASTER. THIS IS WGAL EIGHT INFOCUS COVERAGE. YOU CAN COUNT ON. WE ARE JOINED NOW BY NEWS 8 POLITICAL ANALYST DR. TERRY MADONNA. THANKS FOR BEING ON IN FOCUS. WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE. MY PLEASURE. THANKS FOR HAVING ME. TERRY, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY UNPRECEDENTED. HOW DO YOU SEE THIS? AND ITS IMPACT ON THE 2024 ELECTION? WELL, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT THAT IT IS BY FAR THE MOST SIGNIFICANT ELEMENT IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OF 2024. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT TO GET THE POLLS TO SEE WHAT IT REPLACES. BUT THERE WE KNOW WHAT IT'S GOING TO REPLACE. IT'S GOING TO REPLACE THE ECONOMY, THE WAR IN UKRAINE HAD PICKED UP MOMENTUM IN TERMS OF THE ISSUES THAT CONFRONT OUR COUNTRY ON EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE, HEALTH CARE, IN PARTICULAR. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THIS IS NOW GOING TO DOMINATE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND NOT JUST THE REPUBLICAN BATTLE FOR THE NOMINATION, BUT THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN AS WELL. IT'S INTERESTING THAT SOME REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN CRITICAL OF DONALD TRUMP HAVE SAID THEY THINK THIS IS A WEAK CASE AND HAVE SORT OF COME TO HIS DEFENSE, INCLUDING MITT ROMNEY. WELL, THERE ISN'T ANY DOUBT ABOUT IT. I MEAN, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, LET'S LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. WE HAVE A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHO'S NOT BACK ON THE FARM, BACK ON THE RANCH, BACK HOME, WRITING HIS MEMOIRS. THIS PARTICULAR PRESIDENT IS SEEKING ANOTHER TERM AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IN THE MIDST OF THIS TREMENDOUS LEGAL CHALLENGE. AND LET'S POSSIBLY MORE LEGAL. EXACTLY. IT'S NOT FORGET THAT WE COULD HAVE THERE COULD BE SEVERAL OTHER PROSECUTIONS FORTHCOMING. SO DONALD J. TRUMP HAS TO RUN A CAMPAIGN OR PUT IT THIS WAY, WILL RUN A CAMPAIGN IN THE MIDST OF THE LEGAL CHALLENGE IS THAT HE FACES. AND RIGHT NOW, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT. HE HAD ABOUT 35, 40% OF THE REPUBLICAN VOTERS WHO WERE HAD INDICATED THEY WOULD VOTE FOR HIM. HE HAD A SUBSTANTIAL LEAD OVER HIS MAIN RIVAL WHO'S NOT OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED HIS MAIN UNNAMED RIVAL ON UNDECLARED, I SHOULD SAY, GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS. THAT LEAD, BY THE WAY, IS IN DOUBLE DIGITS IN A COUPLE OF POLLS. IT WAS 24, 30 POINTS RESPECTIVELY. THAT IS A HUGE LEAD. AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME WITHOUT GETTING AHEAD OF THINGS JUST A BIT, THAT HE'S LIKELY TO DOMINATE THE NOMINATION PROCESS RIGHT NOW. NOW, AND YOU DON'T SEE THIS AS NEGATIVELY IMPACTING HIS NOMINATION? NOT AT THE MOMENT, BUT AS I LIKE TO SAY, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TOMORROW, NEXT WEEK, NEXT MONTH. WE MIGHT NOT HAVE A TRIAL UNTIL JANUARY, WHICH IS WHEN THE PROSECUTION WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT. TRUMP'S TEAM WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT LATER NEXT YEAR. THERE WILL BE A HEARING BEFORE THAT. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT WE'RE IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY POLITICALLY, CERTAINLY. AND IT'S TOO HARD TO KNOW HOW IT WILL PLAY OUT AND WHETHER HIS LEAD WILL BE MAINTAINED. BUT AND SOME MIGHT ARGUE IT'S HELPING HIM THAT HE HAS USED IT TO HIS ADVANTAGE, TO RAISE MONEY, RAISED A LOT OF MONEY, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. THE LAST NUMBER I SAW WAS ABOUT 11 MILLION, MILLION RAISED. 17 MILLION. YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT. AND IT'S AND IT'S GROWING. AND NOT THAT DONALD J. TRUMP NEEDS THE MONEY. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT AS YOU AND I CHAT RIGHT NOW, THIS IS GOING TO DOMINATE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE, DOES DONALD TRUMP CHANGE THE NATURE OF HIS CAMPAIGN? HE'S VERY OUTSPOKEN, VERY CRITICAL. AND AS YOU AND LEGAL EXPERT JUST TALKED ABOUT, HE'S NOW RESTRAINED IN TERMS OF WHAT HE CAN SAY AND HOW HE CAN ACT. AND HE HAS TO FACE A JUDGE SHOULD HE MOVE BEYOND THE PARAMETERS OF WHAT HE'S PERMITTED TO DO AND SAY. SO WE'RE LITERALLY IN, AS THEY SAY, UNCHARTED TERRITORY. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW IT ALL PLAYS OUT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. WE APPRECIATE IT. COMING UP ON WGAL EIGHT, IN FOCUS, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE HISTORICAL PRECEDENT FOR THIS CASE WITH A PROFESSOR FROM MILLERSVILLE UNIVERSITY. 8 ON YOUR SIDE, A LOCAL TEAM OF INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS ASKING THE TOUGH QUESTIONS. LOOKING OUT FOR YOU, YOUR ELECTRIC RATES GO UP EVEN FURTHER, GETTING YOU THE FACTS, WHAT IT TAKES TO GET AN EV ON THE ROAD ISN'T SO GREEN. LOOKING OUT FOR YOUR HEALTH WHEN YOU WALK, YOU MAY BE COMPENSATING AND YOUR MONEY BY ROAD TO BRYANT. SO WE'VE REACHED OUT TO THE UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE TO ASK HOW CUSTOMERS WERE BEING CHARGED FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FREE. AID ON YOUR SIDE INVESTIGATIONS COVERAGE. YOU CAN COUNT ON ONLY ON WGAL NEWS 8. ONLY ONE STATION BRINGS YOU COMPLETE COVERAGE OF THE SUSQUEHANNA VALLEY IN YOUR COMMUNITY EVERY DAY COVERING BREAKING NEWS. A LOT OF POLICE OFFICERS REMAIN HERE AT THE SCENE. WE'RE GOING TO BE MONITORING THIS THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT. THIS FIRE WAS SET INTENTIONALLY COVERING LANCASTER. THIS IS THE SITE FOR THE NEW CLINIC FOR SPECIAL CHILDREN IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND RED LINE IN CAMP HELP IN HARRISBURG. WE'RE LIVING LIKE IN WEST REDDING. THAT'S WHY WE'RE THE MOST WATCHED LOCAL NEWS. AND THE SUSQUEHANNA VALLEY WGAL NEWS 8 COVERAGE YOU CAN COUNT ON FROM DEBUNKING MYTHS TO PROTECTING YOUR MONEY. ROSSEN REPORTS. DELIVERS DOWNLOAD THE WGAL EIGHT HOUR FOR THE MOST TRUSTED LOCAL FORECAST. THIS IS WGBH EIGHT IN FOCUS COVERAGE. YOU CAN COUNT ON. WE WANTED TO GIVE YOU SOME HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, SO WE'RE JOINED BY DR. ADAM LAWRENCE, WHO'S AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT POLICY AND LAW AT MILLERSVILLE UNIVERSITY. THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. THANK YOU. DR. LAWRENCE, HOW DO YOU THINK THIS WILL AFFECT THE IMAGE OF THE PRESIDENCY? WELL, THE IMAGE OF THE PRESIDENCY IS ALWAYS SUBJECT TO REVISION BASED ON WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE TIME. I THINK WHEN THEY SEE A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES ACCUSED OF A VERY SERIOUS CRIME OR A FORMER PRESIDENT, MOST PEOPLE IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC THINK MAYBE IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO NARROW PRESIDENTIAL POWER AND AUTHORITY. DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENCY HAS TOO MUCH POWER AT THIS POINT? MY PERSONAL OPINION AND I KNOW MANY DISAGREE, IS THAT, YES, PEOPLE WILL CRITICIZE PRESIDENT NIXON DURING THAT PARTICULAR ERA OF BEING AN IMPERIAL PRESIDENT. ABOVE ACCOUNTABILITY AND THE CHECKS AND BALANCES OF OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT. AND I THINK WE'VE KIND OF DRIFTED BACK IN THAT DIRECTION OF LATE. PRESIDENT NIXON, YOU MENTIONED HIM HOW, IF ANY WAY DO YOU THINK THE CASE AGAINST HIM WAS SIMILAR TO WHAT'S GOING ON WITH DONALD TRUMP? ONE OF THE INTERESTING PARALLEL IS AND THERE ARE SOME THAT THEY'RE NOT INCREDIBLE SIMILAR, BUT ONE OF THE PARALLELS IS THAT PRESIDENT NIXON ARGUED BACK THEN THAT HE HAD ABSOLUTE IMMUNITY FROM CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. HE ARGUED THAT HE HAD ABSOLUTE CLAIM OF EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE, DIDN'T HAVE TO TURN OVER ANY INFORMATION TO INVESTIGATORS OR THE OTHER BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT. DONALD TRUMP HAS MADE THE EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS, EVEN THOUGH THOSE ARGUMENTS WERE ULTIMATELY DEFEATED BY THE SUPREME COURT IN US V NIXON. I KNOW MANY HISTORICAL AND LEGAL SCHOLARS THINK THAT PRESIDENT NIXON WOULD HAVE BEEN INDICTED HAD HE NOT RESIGNED. I THINK THAT'S A FAIR SUPPOSITION. THE EVIDENCE AGAINST PRESIDENT NIXON WAS VERY STRONG. WE HAVE HIS OWN WORDS ON TAPE TAPES THAT HE RECORDED IN HIS OVAL OFFICE WHERE HE ORDERED A COVER UP OF THE WATERGATE BREAK IN OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HEADQUARTERS. I THINK THAT'S A PRETTY FAIR CONCLUSION TO DRAW. DO YOU THINK GERALD FORD SHOULD HAVE PARDONED HIM? MY PERSONAL VIEW, AND I KNOW MANY DISAGREE WITH THIS, IS THAT NO, THE PARDON ULTIMATELY, IN TERMS OF THE LONG TERM INTERESTS OF THE COUNTRY WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA. IT CONVEYS THE IMPRESSION THAT PRESIDENTS OUGHT TO BE IMMUNE POST PRESIDENCY FROM CRIMINAL PROSECUTION. AND THAT VERY IDEA IS CORROSIVE OF THE IDEALS OF OUR GOVERNMENT. WE DECLARED INDEPENDENCE FROM OUR COUNTRY IN PART BECAUSE OF AN ABUSE OF EXECUTIVE. WE DON'T NEED ABUSE OF EXECUTIVES IN THE UNITED STATES, IN MY OPINION. I GUESS, FORD SAID IT WAS A WAY TO HEAL THE COUNTRY AND MOVE FORWARD. HE SAID THAT MANY YEARS LATER, I THINK IN THAT IT DID ACCOMPLISH THAT AIM. BUT THOSE ARE SHORT TERM POLITICAL INTERESTS FOR THE COUNTRY. WE HAD, OF COURSE, BEEN THROUGH A CIVIL WAR. WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THE GREAT DEPRESSION. WE WOULD HAVE SURVIVED A TRIAL OF FORMER PRESIDENT NIXON. I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF LEGAL STUFF GOING ON HERE AND THE POLITICS INVOLVED HERE. LET'S TALK ABOUT BILL CLINTON AND HOW HIS CASE WITH MONICA LEWINSKY AND THEN LYING ABOUT IT, HOW THAT'S SIMILAR TO THIS. THERE ARE SOME PARALLELS WITH BILL CLINTON. THEY'RE NOT QUITE AS STRONG AS WITH RICHARD NIXON, BUT BILL CLINTON AND HIS LAWYERS DID MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT HE OUGHT TO BE IMMUNE FROM CIVIL PROSECUTION, PROSECUTION IN CIVIL MATTERS, THE PAULA JONES MATTER COMES TO MIND. THAT WAS BEFORE THE PRESIDENT, AND HE ARGUED BEFORE THE COURT THAT THE TRIAL SHOULD WAIT UNTIL THE END OF HIS PRESIDENCY. HE DIDN'T ARGUE THAT HE WAS ABSOLUTELY IMMUNE IN ALL CASES WHATSOEVER. BUT ONCE AGAIN, THE SUPREME COURT DISAGREED AND SAID NO. MR. MR. PRESIDENT, YOU TO UNDERGO TRIAL DURING YOUR PRESIDENCY. AND HE DID ONE CASE THAT SEEMS VERY SIMILAR TO THIS IS THAT OF JOHN EDWARDS, WHO WAS ACQUITTED, HAD A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION, WAS NOT A PRESIDENT, BUT WAS A CANDIDATE AND A SENATOR. YES, JOHN EDWARDS IS AN INTERESTING CASE. IT IS A PRETTY CLOSE PARALLEL. MANY FOLKS DON'T REMEMBER THAT PARTICULAR ELECTION AND AND THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HIM. BUT ONE OF THE THE CLOSEST PARALLELS WAS HE WAS ACCUSED OF CONDUCTING A SIMILAR SORT OF HUSH MONEY OPERATION TO BUY THE SILENCE OF ANOTHER PERSON. ULTIMATELY, THAT CASE HELD IN A DIFFERENT STATE, OF COURSE, WAS THROWN OUT BY THE COURT. DO YOU THINK THE FOUNDING FATHERS ENVISIONED ANY OF THIS? NO. NOT TO THIS DEGREE, ANYWAY. THEY NEVER THOUGHT. WE KNOW FROM THEIR WRITINGS IN THE FEDERALIST PAPERS THAT THEY NEVER IMAGINED THAT SOMEONE WOULD RISE TO THE STATION. THE PRESIDENCY, WHO WOULD ULTIMATELY BE ACCUSED OF THESE SORTS OF CRIMES, BOTH BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER THE PRESIDENCY. THEY PLACED AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF FAITH IN THE ABILITY OF THE PEOPLE TO SELECT PRESIDENTS WISELY. HMM. WELL, I GUESS THE VOTERS WILL CAN AND WILL HAVE THEIR SAY. ONCE AGAIN, OUR PRESIDENT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. WE APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR WGAL EIGHT IN FOCUS. FOR ALL OF US AT WG AL. I'M SUSAN SHAPIRO. AND JOIN US AGAIN NEXT SATURDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 FOR WGAL EIGHT IN FOCUS RIGHT AFTER NBC NIGHTLY NEWS. AND YOU CAN WATCH EACH EPISODE OF IN FOCUS PLUS WGAL LATEST NEWSCAST ORIGINAL PROGRAMING AND MORE. JUST DOWNLOAD THE VERY LOCAL APP AND STREAM FOR FREE ON ROKU AND AMAZON FIRE TV.