The issues affecting you reveal explained discussed now on W. G. L. Eight in focus. Hello I'm Susan Spyro. The Memphis Police department released video of the beating of Tyree Nichols that once again sparked protests around the country when we want it. The disturbing video shows immediate and prolonged aggression by officers in the Memphis Police Department Scorpion unit that stands for street crimes operation to restore peace in our neighborhoods. The team was permanently disbanded less than 24 hours after the release of the video. Five officers involved in the eating were fired and charged other Memphis police officers and E. M. T. S. Have been placed on leave as the investigation continues. We'll break down the video with *** civil rights attorney and get reaction from the pennsylvania Human relations Commission tonight we're putting Tyree Nichols death investigation in focus. We're here in our Harrisburg's newsroom with Devin Jacob, he's *** civil rights attorney who has brought suit against police departments and police in *** number of alleged police brutality cases. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you. We appreciate it. What was your reaction when you saw the video that was released by the Memphis Police department. It's horrific. Um I deal with *** lot of these cases around the nation and this is definitely one of the outliers. This is one of the worst scenes that I've seen recorded. That's not to say that the worst case that has occurred. That's interesting recorded because obviously these police officers knew they were wearing body cams with audio. Do they tend to forget that or what happens? What I have found is that when people are put under stress or people are excited, they revert back to who they are, they revert back to what is natural to them, what they've been trained, what they've done repeatedly in the past and similar situations. So I don't know that it's, they necessarily forget that they're being recorded. I don't think it even factors in and that's why at the end of an incident or we, when we look back, we're just shocked to see what we see. But what we're seeing is is the raw person and you're *** former police officer. So you know about police training and this seems to go way beyond training. It almost just seems like *** lack of humanity that we're seeing. I do agree. And um, in *** situation like this, this is clearly *** systemic problem in this department. This is not *** rogue set of officers that have to be called out of the pack and everything's gonna be fine. The, the, the way in which they acted together in unison, um, shows that that they're used to acting this way. Um, you mentioned training that this is not just *** lack of training. I don't really see any proper tactics that are used here and, and that concerns me because properly trained police officers would not act in this matter. Well, let's take *** look and of course we have to warn you that this video is very graphic and it's often hard to watch but we're gonna look at the initial arrest or initial attempt to arrest. Sure. Damn. I didn't do anything hey I didn't. Alright. Alright. Alright. Alright. You don't do that? Okay. Get on the ground. Hey is your answer? So what strikes you there? It looks like they just immediately try to pull him out of the car. Yes. Um One thing that that strikes me is we we don't have any evidence as far as why he was stopped and that's the first question that needs to be answered. It sounds like the police chief of this department is having difficulty answering that. Um But let's assume that we have *** lawful stop. The next thing that concerns me is the fact that you see two officers run up on the vehicle. If you have *** situation where there's *** person in the vehicle who needs to be removed, you don't go running up to the vehicle, properly trained. Police officers will order that person out of the vehicle, order them into *** position um where they can be handcuffed and then approach and do the handcuffing here, we have an officer open the door, reach in the car which is *** danger to the officer because he could be grabbed and and dragged and just immediately pulls terry out of the vehicle and he seems somewhat compliant. I mean you hear him say, what did I do? What did I do? Um At least at that point until he runs off, correct? Most properly trained police officers will understand that when *** person stopped they are concerned they don't know what's going on. Um And it is disconcerting to be sitting there with officers around you wanting to do something to you. So de escalation should have occurred had he been taken out of the vehicle in *** controlled manner? There could be *** discussion. Hey listen, this is why we have you stopped, This is what we need to do now. This is how we're going to do it so that everyone remains safe. You don't have any of that here. You have an individual who's already nervous. Now pulled out of the vehicle being pulled on by multiple officers, being given conflicting commands. Of course you're going to have *** melee at that point. Alright, well when we come back we'll take *** look at when they actually get him back after he ran off and what happens during that meeting, we'll have you take *** look at that. This is W. G. G. L. Eight in focus coverage. You can count on, we continue our conversation with Devin Jacob who is *** civil rights attorney who has litigated *** number of cases of alleged police brutality against police departments and police officers. Again, thanks for being here and we're analyzing this video, which I will remind you is very graphic, very hard to look at at some points at at some point after they initially dragged him out of the car. He ran off, Will that be some sort of defense for these officers? I think the officers are definitely going to say, listen, this individual was fighting with us. He was not following commands and then he took off running. He was fleeing and trying to escape. The problem for the officers is the fact that uh an individual is allowed to defend themselves against unlawful force. So even if the arrest is unlawful, you can't use force to defend yourself. But there's *** separate question that's if the officers are using unlawful force against him, then he's allowed to defend himself. So you haven't run away. Well at the time he ran away, you'll note that that is after he's already told the officers that he's complying with their commands. He's already shown an intent to comply with their commands. He's even turned around and said stop to one of the officers trying to calm the officer who's the person in the room there. So I think at this point, you now have *** mob mentality taking place among the officers. They're clearly acting uh, in an unlawful manner. I don't think anybody could look at this from an objective standard and say this is not excessive force at this point. And so he takes off running for his own safety. All right? So then they somehow get him back and let's take *** look at what happens when he is back in their custody. Hey, you might get sprayed again. Okay. You see him being pepper sprayed? Yes. Now now this is an opportunity where the police could have de escalated the situation again. They have now deployed pepper spray whether or not it was necessary or not. They've deployed pepper spray. And what's interesting about pepper spray is the pain and discomfort that it causes. It causes the person to focus on themselves as opposed to other people. So you'll see he leans back in Iraq's phone, he is no longer trying to flee. He's trying to to feel comfort or to be to comfort himself. And what's also interesting is you'll see an officer who got some over spray wandering around complaining about how just the over spray affected him. So imagine how, how he's feeling on the ground with *** direct hit. Um But you do you you see him in in clear pain and discomfort, you see the situation calm and then you see another officer run up all hyped up and kick off, you know the excitement again, ross and Castle Gate and now we're seeing this, you know, high view from the surveillance camera of literally kicking him. Yes. What's your thought there? And seeing that this is particularly troublesome, You have three officers dealing with them at this point. You see 1/4 1 walking up in the in the background and presumably the fifth one is around um He is clearly down while he may not have his hands uh handcuffed just yet. I think they do get handcuffed the middle of this. You have an individual who kicks him and kicks him in the head. So any shot to the head is considered *** use of deadly force and this officers using *** baton correct which is absolutely not necessary and when you you see he gets up now he is wandering around but at this 0.1 can presume that he's now suffered some pretty serious injuries and one has to question uh the amount of control that he has over his his his own self at that point I'm sure he's days if not you know suffering as you say other injuries and what's clear here is you see him stumble, you see him falling, you see them pulling on him in different directions and then you see them continue to beat him while he's handcuffed and that's there's there's literally no explanation for that. That is that is horrifying. Um And you know once the person's restrained it's over. So this number one it should have happened. But number two it definitely should have been over as soon as he was restrained. Alright well stay with us and we'll talk more about what happened after this and what you see may happen going forward. This is W. G. D. L. Eight in focus coverage. You can count on, we continue our conversation with civil rights attorney Devin Jacob who's been kind enough to try to analyze this video and give us some insight. He's also *** former police officer. So you know about training, what struck me after they beat this man. They then we're just standing around not even rendering any kind of aid. What do you make of that? Well the not rendering aid is just simply *** lack of humanity. Um you know if you hurt somebody, most people want to to help these people clearly do not view this individual as *** person. Um It's an us versus them mentality. I've seen it in other police departments. Um it's *** cultural problem within the department. There's also *** lot of use to what struck me of profanity. Is that just something that to be expected or what happens there? I think profanity has its place. Um it didn't have its place here in *** situation where you have somebody who's really dangerous who's really presenting as *** threat. It may be appropriate to speak in the language that they understand. Um but that's not this situation. And and in this situation the way to deescalate was not to use profanity and try to present yourself as somebody who can deal with this situation in this situation. It should have been *** calming down of the scene. Um so no I don't think the profanity here is appropriate and no one stepped up to intervene is something, let's listen to some of the officers who were standing around almost chatting afterward. And what you uh, think about that he took off running wiping your face bro. Hold on right here. He was running through the yard. So that's why I said he couldn't see. No, you said that we went through there, you'll see *** bald head, but then he started running. He was face to face you. I know, I see. Y'all seen okay my leg, Sorry, no mobile. It almost sounds to me like they know they're being recorded and they're somehow trying to mount some kind of defense as to what he was doing. It does appear that way. But I think there's some other things to note here. Clearly these individuals are not the appropriate persons to be wearing *** uniform. Somehow they got through the hiring process into the street. Um, you have here individuals who feel important to show off their machismo. Um, they're, they're, they're puffing their chests and they're, they're showing off for each other and this is part of the unity of this pack that goes around and terrorizes people in that city. So you have that on the one hand, you also have the fact that they're all coming to realize what they just did. And you have to remember that each one of them in *** proper police department will be writing *** police report about their use of force and why they did it. And the hope is that other officers stories will mess up with yours. Um And we now know that that is not what occurred here, that the police report doesn't reflect what we actually see on the video. Um But you also had officers who failed to intervene to stop each other and so they need to explain and justify what they did and why they did it or why they didn't do certain things. Um So you see that going on and yes, there are other officers starting to roll up. We're gonna wonder why is this individual in such bad shape on the ground and so they want to be speaking out about this is what happened. This is why it was so bad. This is why we had to do what we did. Yeah, we've talked *** lot about training. What about vetting police officers? Does it come down to that? Well I I do think you hit the nail on the head and we just touched on the issue and that's that it starts from day one with proper leadership. Um It starts from day one with proper policies in place, proper training and screening in place. Um I don't know, I haven't reviewed this department's hiring process but I would be surprised if if you have this going on. Um I would be surprised to see that there's proper training, proper policies and proper supervision in place. We've seen this so often George Floyd other incidents. Do you think this will be *** change. This will cause *** change. No no, absolutely not. In fact I'm certain it won't. I mean that sounds terrible and sounds sad but what we have after George Floyd, we had, you know, the President of the United States involved, we had Congress people saying, you know, we we we need to do something different. I was in Washington at some meetings with senators and I heard the way they spoke and how committed they were to making *** change. There won't be *** change and this is proof cameras didn't change anything. The public is becoming desensitized to what they're they're seeing even the media. I mean I love the media but even the media, there's less and less coverage of these um these types of incidents. Unless it's one of the outliers, it doesn't get the attention that that it used to get. I think it's going to be business as usual. That's *** sad thing. Um Devin thanks so much for sharing your insights and helping us look at this with *** critical eye. We appreciate it. And coming up, we'll talk to the Executive director of the pennsylvania Human Relations Commission. These were black officers. What does he think about black officers being involved in this beating against *** black man, This is WGGL eight in focus coverage you can count on, I'm joined now by chad Dion Lassiter, the Executive director of the pennsylvania Human Relations Commission. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Mr Lassiter, you issued *** statement on behalf of the commission uh after this happened, what was your reaction to seeing this video and to hearing about what happened in Memphis On *** personal note? Um the video was very traumatic. Um I would be mindful to not divorce myself from how viewing the video, looking at how inhumane it was that had triggered *** form of trauma in me. I think anyone that views this video needs to be very mindful to protect their minds, their bodies and their spirits from the trough. It was very problematic for me that law enforcement could engage in these types of behaviors, but once again it's part and partial of some of the challenges that we've seen in the landscape of our democracy as it relates to law enforcement, uh that individual did not deserve that treatment. And so we have *** lot of work that we need to do in our country with regards to law enforcement. What do you think we need to do? This seemed to go beyond any kind of training, as you said, it seemed to be *** matter of humanity. Well, I think there's aspects of training that can get to humanity um and understanding humanity on all sides. Um and so for instance, I believe that we need to make sure that law enforcement makes it mandatory to have anti racism training um ethnic intimidation training as well as unconscious bias training. I think that we need to also get serious about the conversation around law enforcement and policing and communities of color. Why is it that individuals who are on one side of the color line are stopped by police and the data speaks to losing their lives. We've had too many of these. We just most recently had George Floyd, we had eric Garner, we had Tasha Mckinnon, we had Sandra bland and we need to say their names because they were individuals who came from immunity. Um they were individuals who was someone's child. They were part of the community extended community that have family members. Um and so I think that what anti racism training does is it really gets to the underpinning of how black and brown people are surveilled, how they are police. And certainly when we talk about humanity on the other side, there are law enforcement individuals who are not stopping you because of *** stereotype or racial gaze. There are law enforcement individuals who put their lives on the line every single day under the fear of calamity not knowing if they're going to come back home. They to our fathers, they too are mothers, they too would love to see their Children, you know engaged and the things that parents do with their Children, they want to see their Children coming of age. And so what we do at the pennsylvania human relations committee with our social justice police and community relations committee is trying to create *** social justice milieu *** beloved community in which we're working with law enforcement. We do *** lot of trainings for law enforcement around just the aforementioned things that just articulated uh unconscious bias and anti racism training. But yet these officers, at least most of them in this situation were black. Did that surprise you? Or what does that bring to this conversation? Didn't surprise me at all because I'm not seduced by the black white binary. I think too often were seduced by the white black binary. I wasn't taken aback. I wasn't surprised. I wasn't alarmed. We have *** challenge where it's this blue wall of silence, There's this protection of the color blue. Uh, and so you can be *** *** black officer and you can still see someone who's african american from *** lens of marginalization, from *** lens of oppression, rendering them non person non entity. So for me, I studied this so I'm not caught up with, oh there were there black officers. Why did they do that? You can have black officers who engage in the same uh, in different behaviors and they can also see the individual who looks like them as subhuman too. So there's *** cultural shift that needs to occur. We have work to do. We need to de program uh, to reprogram certain law enforcement agencies on how they look at black and brown people no matter what you're wearing, you can be dressed like me, you can have *** hoodie, you could just be *** *** innocent bystander. You should not lose your life at the hands of law enforcement when there's no potential struggle uh at that traffic stop. These are traffic stops. These are mere traffic stops. So we need more transparent policies. We need to be once again looking at the psychology behind policing and we need to be holding our police departments accountable. Mr Lassiter thank you so much. It's an important conversation to have. We appreciate you being here. Thank you for having me even against the context of these circumstances. Thank you for joining us for W G *** L eight in focus for all of us at W G *** L. I'm Susan Pyro and join us again next saturday night at seven o'clock for W G *** L eight in focus right after NBC nightly news and you can watch every episode of in focus plus W G. *** L. S latest newscast, original programming and more. Just download the very local app and stream for free on Roku and amazon fire tv